Comments on: Using Kites to Pull Cargo Ships Across the Seas

By: Ships « Green Librarian

Ships « Green Librarian — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:17:37 +0000

[...] first article came out awhile ago but, has since been in the news again, Using Kites to Pull Cargo Ships Across the Seas by Jorge Chapa courtesy of [...]

By: PAUL SIEVENSKIE

PAUL SIEVENSKIE — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 03:29:16 +0000

WELL WELL, TIS IT TRUE, HISTORY DOES REPEAT ITS SELF. BACK TO OUR ROOTS WITH A BIG TWIST. NICE I LIKEY. NOW HOW BOUT WE PUT SOME SCRUBBERS OF BETTER EFFICIENCY ON THOSE STACKS AND TAKE SOME OF THOSE HIGH PRO. FUEL SYSTEMS THT THE HUGE OIL COMPANIES DONT WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT, ON THESE MASSIVE SHIPS. MAYBE EVEN ADD A CATALYTIC CRACKER TO THE FUEL LINES. THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH THT COULD SAVE MINUS THE SAIL. THEN ADD THE SAIL ON AN HECK O TOODLE MAYBE WE COULD GET MORE OUR OF IT LESS POLLUTION AND SAVE A FEW BUCKS. SHEESH THERES AN IDEA. HOW BOUT WE ALL TELL THESE OIL PRODUCERS WHERE THEY CAN STICK IT AND MAKE THEM RELEASE THE PATENTS ON HIGH FUEL SAVEING FUEL DELIVERY SYSTEM AND ENGINES. NOW THT WOULD BE A BREAK THROUGH. WE ALL KNOW THE OIL CONGLAMERANTS RUN THE WORLD. EVERYTHING IS TIED TO OIL. BUT YAY THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. PIP PIP AND A BOWL OF CHERRIO’S

By: lena

lena — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:05:47 +0000

I don´t know how well it functions. What I do know is that there are some brilliant minds launching these fabulous ‘knew ideas. Why not? wind is powerful, is free of income taxes, is free of political targets and best of all it actually may work.
kEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

By: tim

tim — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:01:47 +0000

gCaptain has an excellent post on this topic as well as other green ship propulsion ideas:

http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/ocean-kites-top-10-green-ship-designs/

I think this is the future, not only for transporting goods between continents but also to help eliminate the enormous environmental damage caused by trucks transporting goods along both coasts.

-Tim

By: Christopher P.

Christopher P. — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:41:29 +0000

Mike G, et al,
Quite likely that Neanderthals succumbed to Homo Sapiens Sapiens, in part due to trade. The evolved ability to foresee and manipulate complex patterns of social behavior for communal survival (what we have come to call “political economics”) subsumes technology. We went beyond merely making flint tools to cut and skin prey, and harvest seasonal vegetation we followed in migratory patterns. We established settlements to store and trade goods from these seasonal migrations, and eventually artificially to produce the goods “locally”. We stored the information from our past and return to it for inspiration, as we come upon new challenges raised by this complex, now global, social behavior. These sails are not the old sails, nor our demands our old demands.

By: Mike G

Mike G — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:18:58 +0000

I’ve been thinking of this more. With the inconsistencies of the wind would other methods be suitable? Vertical wind turbines, for one, would catch the wind regardless of direction and harness the power. But the wind velocity at the level of the ship may limit this.

Solar panels, getting thinner by the day (year), would generate a good amount of power as well. Where to put them? On top of the containers? As a large fabric covering? There are cranes on the ship to mobilize such devices. If effectively designed, a few ship hands could have these systems up and running quickly.

I also wonder about the energy outside the boundaries of the ship. The ports could begin installing eco-friendly feuling stations… biodiesel, solar electric, etc. to supplement the ship-produced power.

This is all crazy ecotopia thinking though. We could also stop buying all this junk that is shipped to us, reducing the number of ships needed to transport said junk.

By: K

Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:30:12 +0000

The point is to use the wind whilst its there not following trade routes!
If you drive at 110km/h you will use 25% more fuel than if you were driving at 90km/h so therefore if you had a force that reduced some of the drag on the vessel (by pulling it forward) the diesel engines have to work far less and thus is the saving. I can see the gains they speak of I cannot see multiple kites….

And for all you fools that either don’t read the comments or you do and still post the same thing that every other bastard has the point is that the idea is new because it is being coupled with a diesel engine so that it helps reduce the amount of fuel burnt. Do you think that sails are being proposed as a new propulsion method??? Of course they are not!!! They are being used to help reduce the amount of fuel used by providing another method of propulsion if that’s such a crime whilst saving millions of litres of fuel per year then they should be drawn and quartered for thinking about saving money and the environment! Shame on them!!!

By: Jared Lorz

Jared Lorz — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:12:16 +0000

Hmm an interesting point but I’m not sure if I agree with you.

Jared Lorz

By: Will G

Will G — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 02:49:05 +0000

The reason why they’re only using a small sail has mostly to do with the cable, not the sail. those ships are huge, and while the sail is fairly small in proportion, it’s still pretty large. staggered sails on a single cable would require massively stronger ( and thus expensive) cables; as well as stronger anchor points. Modern ships are designed to ‘push’ into the water from behind, not be ‘pulled’ from the front – and if anyone studies the old concrete liberty ships of WWII – an undesigned for stress can sometimes bite you hard in the seating spot.

If this ship succeeds and shows that the sail really can be managed effectively at sea and generates a real cost savings ; then future systems will likely be designed with multiple sails. This is still a test project though, and no company will risk a ship of that size on untested gear easily. What happens, after all, if the wind drops suddenly and the sails hits the water? at best, it’s useless until it dries – wet stuff is heavy after all. At worst, if it drops in front of the ship and they cant clear it in time, it could foul the props and then the ship – with perhaps $100million in time sensitive cargo – is stranded for possibly days.

As to why we stopped using sail power ? theres reason’s we gave it up, and they start with
A) Ships full of dead sailors as the became becalmed too far out to row, or caught in the sargossa seas and starved.
B) Speed. The fastest of the old world sailing ships couldn’t outrace a supercargo carrier these days, let alone a speedboat.
C)Reliability. Could you imagine UPS saying ‘Depending on ocean winds, your package will be here in 2-20 weeks’

It’s good to see less polluting ideas get tested; and hopefully it will prove to outdo it’s design expectations and provide so few issues that they DO develop bigger systems and deploy them more and more. even if it’s only an overall 5% saving in fuels.. that’s still 5%.
35% does seem high, but i am not a sailor, idont knowwhat mid ocean currents are like, and if they can find a steady 50km/h wind from the stern.. yea, i can see 35%, possibly.

By: travel globally

travel globally — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:49:18 +0000

Its amazing how there is nothing new under the sun
Somehow the power boats were considered “more modern” and sail ” primitive ” and “obsolete”
Guess it all comes down to travel ,costs and the pocket book in the end

By: D-BO

D-BO — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:52:07 +0000

Kind of a weird request, but is there anyway to find out where the first picture was taken?

I think that paddle wheel ship in the background is one of my company’s.

Just curious.

By: Richie

Richie — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:38:08 +0000

Nice. What about multiple kites per ship ? Interesting. What if these kites stayed aloft because they were attached to gas filled bladders ? Just imagine how that would look… and work ? Multiple SAILS (kites) but no MASTS ! You could have a bunch of them, all non-interfering, because they’re at different heights !

By: wflan

wflan — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:26:53 +0000

a 10-35% reduction in transportation related fuel use on major sea routes is a BIG deal. COntainer shipping is already highly engineered for efficiency (including minute adjustments in load distribution, fuel levels, etc) and this sort of (effectively) free boos is a big deal. I too see the irony that sailing is seen as the next big thing but the boost is a BIG deal. I might lookup some figures on potential impact and get back here but a lot of traffic occurs on these channels

By: Aaron

Aaron — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:25:25 +0000

It’s a neat idea, especially if it can be easily retrofitted to existing ships. But I agree with others that the concept of using wind to power ships as some kind of hot new thing is pretty silly. Also, this thing will only work if the wind is blowing the right way. Sailing ships have to zigzag in crazy patterns to make progress if the wind is blowing the wrong way. A big cargo ship, with a deadline to meet, probably doesn’t have that option. Also, these things should scale fairly linearly I would imagine. If one sail can provide x amount of force, then 2 should provide 2x and so on. So if it’s cost effective to put one on there then it would seem you might as well just load the ship with them and reduce it’s fuel costs to some minimal amount.

Oh and if this does happen to lower shipping costs don’t expect the costs of consumer goods to drop by much, shipping is generally a very small percentage of the overall cost.

By: Paul

Paul — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:01:25 +0000

Mike, good question.

Mainly if you have more sails, you’ll require sailors with sail and wind expertise. More sales than one kite means setting up ship masts and sailors climbing rigging during rough weather, etc. possible injury from falls, etc. Due to petroleum’s historically low price, it’s been easier to just turn on an engine and press “Go”.